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The gap between Industrials and Freighters

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Uncle George	Posted - 2005.07.11 23:16:00 - [1] I'm with you guys. As an industrialist, I'm not seeing any improvement; I can't progress because I have nowhere to go. There are lots of us around and I think we should start giving CCP grief about it. Our problem is that in general we tend to be quieter (not me personally obviously) than the combat crowd. A Tech II Iteron V for example, double capacity - I can haul my stash from belt to station in 2 trips instead of 4. It will make me marginally more efficient (not hugely). So I don't think it's a biggee in terms of implementation and balance. GIVE US SOME ATTENTION CCP!
Uncle George	Posted - 2005.07.11 23:23:00 - [2] Originally by: Golden Ratio Freighters server a completely different role, but if you have the patience, skill, knowledge, intelligence and determination to get one for yourself, more power to you, EH? Indeed, but freighters cannot be used for hauling ore from belt to station (for example). They are completely irrelevant to a miner, unless it's hauling minerals from A to B. Most miners tend to mine near their production center, so this isn't an issue for them either.
Uncle George	Posted - 2005.07.12 00:02:00 - [3] Originally by: sonofollo the space reducing minerals packing technology module sounds like a good idea (will allow you to haul more minerals while keeping the inudstrials for NPC goods trading and equip moving as well) I don't see the point of a "compression" module, we already have two of them (cargo expanders AND containers). Just release a friggin tech II indy and we are sorted.
Uncle George	Posted - 2005.07.12 09:25:00 - [4] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Matthew Wow, what a great argument. It could be used to argue against the introduction of practically every ship above the noob ship, in fact anything new that might actually be worth having. I guess we should put Eve development in mothballs right now to stop any further inflation I think you completely underestimate quite how valid that arguement is. With a 100,000m3 indy for example, I would earn over a million isk per minute, in safe empire space. Does that not sounds just a little unbalanced? This particular balance argument is related only to trade goods. I have no problem with any such hauler being specific to ore or minerals for example.
Uncle George	Posted - 2005.07.12 14:09:00 - [5] I don't think expander II's are going to make a huge difference here. I would rather pay 150 million for a capable hauler, than pay 150 million for modules on an existing hauler.
Uncle George	Posted - 2005.07.12 19:56:00 - [6] Originally by: Avon To recap flummox, incase you missed it, my arguement goes like this: I have a trader alt. If a 100,000m3 ship is introduced I can make 1mil isk per minute. I think that is unbalancing and so think it is bad for the game, the ship imho should not be introduced. If I reasoned like Sobeseki I would beg for the ship and not care how it effected the game as a whole. People are at the moment able to make 1 million per jump (or minute, if it takes 60 seconds) by hauling trade goods in the right locations. They do this until the price is no longer advantageous and then move on. Making the hauler larger will not prevent the cap on the amount you can haul between any two given locations with a specific item. I can't see a reason not to introduce a much better hauler. If it's trade goods that worry you, then reduce the price differences between regions.
Uncle George	Posted - 2005.07.12 20:05:00 - [7] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Uncle George People are at the moment able to make 1 million per jump (or minute, if it takes 60 seconds) by hauling trade goods in the right locations. They do this until the price is no longer advantageous and then move on. Making the hauler larger will not prevent the cap on the amount you can haul between any two given locations with a specific item. I can't see a reason not to introduce a much better hauler. If it's trade goods that worry you, then reduce the price differences between regions. But then you nerf all the people who don't have one? Making new content a requirement to continue at the same level is one of the most complained about things on the forum of recent times. Personally I don't trade like this. I'm a ship builder and I sure could use a larger hauler mainly for moving ore from belt to station and minerals a few jumps from station to factory. I have no need for a freighter to do this (not that I could any way). It isn't a nerf, it's "balancing". As this game is ever changing, balance is an on-going project.
Uncle George	Posted - 2005.07.12 20:34:00 - [8] Avons calculation is bollox. 60 million per hour - he's based that on the assumption of 1 million per minute for an hour (ie. just multiplied by 60!). Thats a bit simplistic. Your trade route won't last that long anyway due to price fluctuations, so you'll have to have another and maybe another after that. Not counting any other players who have found those trade routes also.
Uncle George	Posted - 2005.07.12 21:04:00 - [9] Edited by: Uncle George on 12/07/2005 21:06:07 Originally by: Avon Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi Prices would go down chief. They are high right now because moving stuff around costs more than its worth. Nope, if prices went down the high earners would buy it up and resell. Cap II's anyone? Okay Avon, please suggest some new content that will keep us industry types happy. Something new for mining or hauling that we could use. POS is a waste of time, freighters are for the big guys. My Iteron V skill has been sat on it's bottom for absolutely ages. I say once again: YES TO A NEW HAULER SPECIFICALLY FOR ORES OR MINERALS. CCP like specialisation, SO SPECIALISE THE HAULERS (burp)
Uncle George	Posted - 2005.07.12 21:25:00 - [10] Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 12/07/2005 21:07:44 Originally by: Uncle George Okay Avon, please suggest some new content that will keep us industry types happy. Something new for mining or hauling that we could use. POS is a waste of time, freighters are for the big guys. My Iteron V skill has been sat on it's bottom for absolutely ages. I say once again: YES TO A NEW HAULER SPECIFICALLY FOR ORES OR MINERALS. I think you guys should get a nice refining ship that can munch your ore in the belts and spit out minerals - not as efficient as refining in a station ... but not so bad as to be pointless. Oh, you can already compress some minerals, but I'm sure you knew that anyway... Avon, I'm hauling my minerals to the factory in order to build stuff. If I already had the minerals AT the factory in order to "compress" them, I would have already hauled them. The "refining in belt" idea is cool - but I tend to mine in systems with a refinery at 50%. I'm not talking 0.0 bistot, crokite, ark 6 jumps from station here, I'm talking bog standard low sec (0.1 - 0.2) low end mining.

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